Hi everyone, we will do this conference
in English. that’s the first information to let you
know. But there will be the possibility to ask
questions in Italian. They will be translated, Alessio is the one
who’s going to do it. Of course replies will be translated. I would like to thank Yanis Varoufakis,
for accepting our invitation to come here and tell us the latest news
about his movement, and of course his opinion on what is going on in Italy. I’m going to ask actually a question, exactly on this, it’s going to be my first
question : If you can give us some insight on your
agenda and your new alliances in Europe. I’m thinking of course about the European
elections of next year. There were some talking about five
movement stars (5 Star movement)
and also Mélenchon so we would like to understand, if you can
tell us something about your plans for the next weeks and months? Tank you! Well tank you so much, tanks to all of you.
for being here. Tank you for your hospitality. Thank you for your question. The main reason why we’re here is because
Italy today is being torn apart by two destructive forces. One is Brussels, and
the other is Salvini. By the failed establishment of Renzi,
Merkel, Junker, Moscovici on the one hand and by the reckless, racist, xenophobic,
anti-European Salvini project. What we are doing as Diem25 in Italy,
France, Germany, Greece has to be seen in this context. Today Italy is ground
zero of the European crisis. Italy should be in the focus of
progressives around the World. Brussels and Salvini, this is a statement
that may surprise some of you, Brussels and Salvini are working very well
together, as we speak, against the interests of Italians, in particular, and
of Europeans in general. Salvini is Brussels’ greatest supporter.
Junker, Merkel, Macron et al. are hanging on to power with the argument:
“whatever mistakes we have made in Brussels in Berlin, in Rome (talking about Renzi),
after us comes Salvini. So you’d better support us. And Brussels is
is also Salvini’s greatest supporter. By imposing on Italy rules that guarantee
Italy’s stagnation, and falling income for the average Italians, they enable Salvini’s
sortie into xenophobic populism. Allow me to turn directly to the issue
that concern most of you here in Italy today. The clash on the Italian budget
with Brussels. Our position as Diem25 is that both
Brussels and the Lega-5 Stelle government are profoundly and intentionally wrong.
Brussels is wrong to impose on Italy fiscal and banking rules that guarantee
Italy’s stagnation. Rules that were agreed too, by the now
collapsing Italian establishment. The EU’s revamped fiscal rules are
analytically baseless. There is no such things as a structural
deficit. It can not be measured and it should not be measured. It based on faulty
economics. They are forcing Rome to introduce
austerity at a time when Italy’s growth has collapsed to almost 0%. If the Italian
government, any Italian government, were to follow the fiscal compact, you would have an increase in
the debt to GDP ratio. Not a fall, because the denominator, your GDP, would
go into reversal. You would have an other recession. The Lega-5Stelle government is wrong also.
This budget will not boost growth sufficiently to make a difference to most
people, the result would be a deficit overshoot without much benefit. Cutting for instance
the top tax rate will not boost growth. When the rich receive a hand-out, they
take it to Switzerland or to Luxembourg, or save it. Even worse, it is our view that
both Brussels and this government know that they are wrong. Brussels is
choosing to be wrong, because Brussels, the bureaucracy, is more interested in
maintaining control over our countries than they are in shared prosperity across
Europe. And the Lega-5 Stelle government is
choosing to be wrong, because Salvini and Di Maio are more interested in
maintaining this precarious alliance than in the prosperity of the Italian
people. So, here we are as Diem25 facing this
situation : Italy stagnates because its centrist establishment agreed to EU rules
that choked Italy, causing its own political demise, the political demise
of the establishment that approved these rules, and paving the ground for Salvini.
The ancient regime of Renzi et al. and his patrons in Brussels and the Lega-
5 Stelle government are two faces of the same problem. And they will continue to
reinforce each other while Italy sinks, while Europe fragments. One of the side
effects, the collateral damage of this clash between Salvini and Brussels is that we
have stopped talking about the Eurozone reforms, that are absolutely necessary
to keep Italy in the Eurozone. To keep Greece in the Eurozone, to keep
the Eurozone sustainable. Reforms that even Macron discussed are
now dead in the water. The oligarchic establishment the PD, Forza
Italia…, caused the problem and today they cannot pretend to be part of the
solution. Salvini is exploiting this to bring through his rabid xenophobia a new
fascist moment in Italy. While 5stelle is increasingly discredited
as a crutch on which Salvini is leaning to take over government completely
next year. We must act now, Italy has an urgent need
for a new progressive alternative to the implicit but destructive alliance
between the establishment and Salvini’s nationalism. But what Italy does
not need from us progressives is yet another sad leftist alliance of
the usual left wings suspects. Italy does not need another Frankenstein
left wing list that stitches together the dead parts of what used to be Italy’s
glorious left. The last thing Italians needs is another
list of leftist candidates lacking a coherent program of change. A Europeanist
program of change that answers the question what do you do with the banks,
what do you do with public debt What do you do with poverty, not only in
Italy but also in France, in Germany, in Greece. This is why we are here today, to
announce that we are going to put together such a list, with a single, coherent,
credible program. You may very well ask : and who are you?
Who are we, who are going to do this? Last march, in Napoli, Diem25, I was there,
colleagues, political movements from Poland, Denmark, Portugal, my friend B.
Hamon from France together with Luigi De Magistris, the mayor of Napoli we
embarked upon this project of putting together a transnational list with a
coherent program across Europe. This program is now complete, after many
months of very hard work It is the progressive, ecological, feminist
humanist, rational program of the pan-European coalition that we now call :
“Primavera europea”, “European spring”. What we propose, because this is Italy and
we have a major crisis, allow me to start with Italy. Let me give you an
example of the kind of proposal we are bringing to the table, that address the
local, the national and the European at the same time. The first thing we propose, regarding the
Italian budget, is that the component of it which concerns minimum guaranteed income
is introduced and indeed expanded. Simultaneously, number 2, scrap Salvini’s
top tax cuts – when you give hand-outs to the rich, as I said before, you are not
boosting growth, we have known this forever Why have we forgotten it now? Replace those
tax-cuts with a growth enhancing green investment plan, that pushes the deficit,
not to 2.4% of GDP, but to 3% of GDP, but most of it is made up of public
investment, we are talking about something like 20 billion, for 3 purposes: first, the
industrial and ecological transition necessary in this country, to solve
for instance problems like ILVA in Taranto and off-shoring of low-added-value
manufacturing; secondly, environmental safety, beginning
with a plan for seismic prevention, that we have included in our program,
and thirdly, investment in infrastructure to avoid repetition of the Genoa disaster
and invest in sustainable transport. And what about the fiscal rules of the EU?
Our proposal is that we go from 2.4 to 3 but in a growth enhancing manner. Well,
if the EU wants Italy to adhere to the fiscal compact, it can be done. Our proposal
is that the government of Italy calls for an EU council summit, to propose
the following: in order to reduce the fiscal deficit of
Italy from 3% to 0,8%, even to 0%, if Europe cares for this so badly, that we
adopt, as the EU, the EU council can give this green light, as a result of one simple
decision, no need for any treaty changes whatsoever, to give the
green light to the European Investment bank that belongs to all EU member states, for
issuing EIB bonds up to 5% of Eurozone GDP per year, for 5 years, this is about 500
billion Euros, with the European Central Bank standing by
in the secondary bond market to purchase those bonds, in the same way that it has
been doing for the last few years. This way you boost investment, public
investment, through the EIB in Italy in Germany, in Greece, by 5% of GDP, and
that way you can ameliorate, then you could have an Italian government, which is
reducing Italian deficit down to the levels prescribed by the European Council and
the fiscal pact. This is part of our New Deal for Europe,
you can see that we are combining a solution for Italy with a solution for
Europe. Europe desperately needs a large scale green investment program
to create the good quality jobs that we are lacking across Europe, which are
causing our young into precarious jobs in Germany as much as in Italy, which feeds
the nationalist internationalism across Europe, racism, xenophobia,
we need to make this investment in the green energy union that we do not have,
for many reasons, for the planet’s sake, but also for the sake of becoming decoupled
from Putin’s Gazprom. Diem25, in every country, we just gave you
an example here in Italy, combine solutions at the pan-European level, with solutions
at the national level, indeed, the regional level. Ladies
and Gentlemen, austerity for the many and socialism for the bankers, has given
rise to the present fascist moment in Italy to the collapse of the political centre
everywhere, to the reactionary, divided Europe that Mr. Trump dreams of.
Today here in Rome we are saying: Enough! We are saying another Italy,
another Europe, is not only possible but it is here, in the form of our
transnational movement, with a single coherent program that people
can believe in in Italy, in Germany, in France, everywhere. Talking about our next steps: we are here
as part of the process that we began in Napoli, in March of this year, with Luigi
De Magistris, with Benoît Hamon of Génération, with the Alternativet party
in Denmark, with Razem in Poland, with Livre in Portugal, with Mera25, our
new party in Greece, with green parties that we are in discussions with, with
leftist parties, but what matters to us is that we do not simply present to you
a list of people who want to be elected, that our list should have one common
radical europeanist program, Whoever wants to discuss this program with
us. Which is at a very advanced stage you can go into europeanspring.net, and
read our program for Europe as a whole, anyone who wants to discuss this, you can
come along. The discussion ‘are you with Melenchon’,
are you with… whoever, is not the kind of discussion that people out there care for.
This is old style politics, we are not interested in it, we are interested in
solutions. Anyone who wants to join us on the basis of one program for the whole
of Europe that works for Italy, that works for Germany, can come with us and will be
part of this list. The European Parliament elections of May
2019, they are only a start, they give us an opportunity to have this debate.
We will use the May elections to transcend the fake conflict between Salvini and
Brussels, between the authoritarian incompetent establishment and the
misanthropic nationalist international. Diem Italia is here, we are moving up and
down the country, we are scheduling 3 major events in November, there is going to be
one, the final one in Milano, there is going to be one in Taranto, there are going to be
3 major events, we are beginning to collect the signatures that are necessary for Diem
Italia to run in Italy, we invite all the various partners that we embarked upon this
journey last March in Napoli, to join us but there is no more time to waste.
We are moving, we are declaring our presence in Italy and elsewhere, because we are
going to be doing the same thing, there will be a similar announcement of a
political party belonging to Diem25 in Germany on the 24th and 25th of November
in Greece we have already started, in France… we are here not only to contest
an election, but we are here to bring to the people of Italy a scent of next May’s
European Spring, with a message: Italian progressives are no longer alone!
Thank you. Than you Yanis,
We open the questions, so, if there are any? Do you need a translation, anything in
particular? OK, yes, so… Hello, Angela Maoro, Huffington Post Italy:
You didn’t talk about the immigration, which is a topic on which Salvini gains votes.
So what do you have to say about that? I think it’s a topical point in the next
European electoral campaign for everybody.
Thanks. Europe does not have a migration crisis.
Italy and Greece, we have a migration problem. Why? Because there is no such
things as a EU. Europe as a whole is large enough and rich
enough to deal with this problem in a humane way. We must bind together in order
to change the position of the EU regarding migration. But we are not going to do it
through using migrants as scape goats We are not going to succeed either saving
our countries or our Europe, by turning xenophobia, or turbo-charging, I should say
xenophobia, like Salvini is doing. The fact that Salvini is gaining votes
in Italy by becoming increasingly racist is simply a
symptom of inability of progressives to bind together to combine a rational
approach to the problem with a humanism which is in the heart and in the minds of
Italians and Europeans. Our position is very simple. The migrants that are coming
to our shores are an essential ressource for the future. Europe needs migration. We
are an ageing society at the European level, but you can not pile up migrants
and in Greece on the basis of xenophobia in Austria, in Germany, in France, which
then gives a xenophobe like Mr Salvini the opportunity to gather power in Italy,
through turning humans against humans. [Italian translation of the answer] Q: Hi I’m Simon ?? from the Norwegian weekly
paper Morgenbladet, I wanted to ask you: you became yourself famous for opposing
the EU commission and its economic politics I was wondering if you could be a bit
more specific on what exactly is the difference in the way, back in your days,
you criticised the EU commission and the way the Italian government is doing it now
when it comes to the ‘manovra’, the budget? Obviously there is lots of differences when it
comes to immigration for example but exactly the way there are claiming their right to
have their own economic policy. And then, a second question : On 5 Stelle
have you completely giving up hope on seeing the 5 Star movement as a progressive
force in Europe, you now count them as equal to Lega or do you see possibility
in the future of changing that situation? Regarding the difference, between our
opposition to the Brussels establishment and that of the Lega, we are radical Euro-
peanists, we want to bring Europe together. We want… ehm… if you want, a federal Europe, that works
democratically whereas Mr Salvini and his Lega would like to see the dismemberment
of the EU and maybe then its retention as nothing more than a trade zone, that is a
profound difference. We are opposing Brussels, because we are Europeanists and
as Europeanists we are against the policies of Brussels that are destroying Europe and
giving Mr Salvini the opportunity to finish it off On the second question, we never give
up hope on anyone. Some of us are atheists within Diem25m but
we are all believers in humanity. 5 Stelle have to decide for themselves
whether they want to continue this path of being the crutch of a racist,
xenophobic Lega and to be working for them, before Mr Salvini chews them up,
and spits them out, after the European parliament election, or whether they want
to return to a humanist block. If they do we will welcome them. Do you need a translation? So we can save
time and go to the next question, ok? Yes? OK. Can you give us a small summary,
thanks. [Interpreter’s translation] Giovanna Ferrara, “Il Manifesto”, I wanted
to ask this question: from the point of view of new architecture
of Europe, what do you think about the unique situation that has crystallised
in Italy, regarding conflicts within the institutions: I’m talking about the
case of Mimmo Lucano, and of those municipalities that declare “open ports”,
against the directives of the government, and I’m thinking about the “Mediterranea”
organisation, which was born precisely to become the anvil between… inside this
conflict within the institutions. [Interpreter’s translation for Yanis] Diem25 is a municipalist movement, not just
a Europeanist movement. We believe that, within a united Europe, a
democratic Europe, regions and municipalities should have a lot more
autonomy. Indeed the Eurozone crisis has reduced the autonomy of mayors, of
regional authorities by pushing authority down to level of the local. The result is
a greater crisis, both the of local economies and of democracy. In the case of Riace,
you will allow me to simply add to that which you all know, that I find personally
quite interesting and worrying that in an area where you have a particular mayor,
effectively damaging the interests of the mafia, by taking away contracts from them,
that this government, that at least part of it was suppose to be absolutely
determined to make a difference in this fight, is targeting this particular mayor
in the way that they are doing it. This is why, Diem believes very strongly
that this fake contradiction, this fake conflict between the establishment
and the anti-establishment government, is fake. Even down to the level of
Riace. You see how fake it is. Do you need the translation? Yes? [Interpreter’s translation] I have a question also for you Y. : It’s a curiosity, actually, because we hear
a lot talking about communication strategies, to also attract the sceptical citizens, the
euro-sceptical citizens that are apparently growing and I would like you to say some
words on it, I mean do you have a specific communication specific communication strategy? Spin doctors and these new tools,
are you planning to use new tools to… I mean to spread your ideas? We have no spin doctors, we do not have
image makers. Not because we can’t afford them, no I don’t think we can afford them,
but we don’t want them, and we don’t want them because I think that people out there
have had enough of spin. They have had enough of fudges, they have had enough of
politicians. We are not politicians, we are engaging in politics, not because we
want to become ministers or members of parliament but because we feel a historic
duty to intervene in this fake conflict between the establishment and the so
called anti-establishment. The way we are approaching, those who are
sceptical, not just about Europe but about politics, about the future, about the
capacity of democracy to change anything. Those who agreed in the end with W.
Schäuble, when he said that the democracy can not be allowed to change anything.
We are determined to address particular issues, with very specific proposals. Not
wishful thinking, not ‘we want another Europe, another world’, No, you heard
before the specific proposal about the Italian budget. We argued that, yes to the minimum
guaranteed income, and no to the tax cuts, use this money for public investment. We
explained where we think the money should go. Maybe boost the deficit of three percent,
but at the same time go to the EU with a proposal, which is completely legal and,
and within the treaties on how to shrink that deficit down, while boosting
investment within a pan-European. So, speaking to people, to people’s worries
answering their number one question, which is : why should I be optimistic about
the future of my children? The answer is, because we have a capacity
as Europeans, as Italians, to invest in good quality green jobs for your children. And
this is how we could do it. That is us spin doctoring. It isn’t an utopia, what you are saying? What is a utopia, is to think that we can
continue the way we are continuing! What is utopic, is to think for Brussels
that if only Mr Renzi where to return to power in Italy, to impose the rules of
Brussels, everything would be fine. That is utopia. What is utopia, is to think
that Mr Salvini beats up even more hatred for the foreigners and clashes with Europe
without a plan for green investment, that things are going to be better. What we are
proposing is the only realistic plan. Is it utopia to think that realism can
succeed? Well maybe, but it’s a realistic utopia, and that is the only thing that can
stop an awful dystopia from setting in! You need a translation ? No? Ok, here. Good Morning, I am Luca Mariani,
Agenzia Italia, if it’s possible I would like to speak in Italian. Yes of course, you can. Three questions. The first: will you be
the frontrunner for the EU commission? Let’s ask 2… Oh no, very short ones. Will the frontrunner
for the EU commission be Mr. Varoufakis? Second: who will be the frontrunner of your
movement in Italy? De Magistris, the mayor of Naples?
Third: I see Salvini declaring that he is safer in Moscow than in the European capitals,
I see Trump having a privileged relationship with Conte and Farage, maybe this is not
an opposition between Bruxelles and Salvini maybe there is a slightly larger game at
play here? What do you think? Of course, it is a much bigger game. But
Mr Salvini is a major player. S. Bannon will concur. There are other
players, Mr Seehofer in Munich, Those who will probably replace Mrs. Merkel.
Mr. Orban, Mr. Kurz, and so on and so forth… but let me answer your question about
the Spitzenkandidat (frontrunner) : This process has already died according to
the Christian-democrats, they don’t believe in it. The Social-democrats have ceased to
exist. It seems to me that this process has been shown up for what it was, a fake
democratic process. Now Diem25, European Spring, our alliance, are going
to have an open primary before May to decide who is going to represent us in
Brussels. So you can think of this as the Spitzenkandidat of the movement. If You
are asking me personally, I’m going to make myself available to the movement.
But let me also say, that we are absolutely determined to break free of national
divisions in the European parliament elections our movement is going to have
a German leading the ticket in Greece, there will be Greeks contesting European
parliament seats in Germany, there will be Italians in France, and so on. This is our
symbolic way of doing away with this fake division between North and South. There is
no division, between North and South No clash between Italy and Germany, or
Greece and Germany. There is only one clash between progressives and those who
are undoing our societies everywhere. And that clash happens in Greece, in Italy
everywhere. I think that is more or less what I want
to say on this issue. You need translation?
No? A question here… I can speak in English but it’s better
maybe in Italian I just wanted to ask: last week there were
elections in Bavaria, regional elections, with the victory of the green party, led
by a 34-year-old, I wanted to know if these elections, in which, for the first
time the green party, such a young woman, in Bavaria, the land of the German
automobile industry, a green party that is not scared to talk about a numerus
clausus regarding migration policies, I’d like to know if there is a possibility
of an alliance, within Germany, of the German DiEM, and, considering that
we were talking earlier about humanism as the answer to the migration problem, what
does DiEM stand for, can one talk unabashedly about limiting migrant numbers, obviously
considering the available resources for education, for offering work and a
dignified reception to the migrants arriving in all of Europe. [translation for Yanis] We welcome the fact that the green party
did well, in Munich. They did not win Bavaria. They simply took the votes of the
collapsing social democrats. The winners in Bavaria, remain the forces
of the right. The CSU together with the AFD. A crushing victory by them. Let us not
forget that. Would we want to align ourselves with the green parties of Europe?
Absolutely! We are in discussions with them, but I
will answer the question in the same way that I would answer it if you were to
ask me about the Linke, about liberals, anti-systemic liberals, by saying
We are not interested in labels. We are interested in getting things done.
So, we put out a program, which we call a new green deal for Europe. Where we make
proposals about this investment program of 500 billions in green transition, a year,
every year for 5 years. We have a program for what to do with public debt, with the
non-performing loans of the banks, with poverty, with democratisation and so
on. It’s a very comprehensive program. And we are inviting everyone to discuss it
with us, not to accept it. To tell us where we are wrong, and we should do differently.
And we wish that the green, the left, the liberals, progressive-conservatives even
come to us and we can have this discussions in order to start tabula rasa
a new progressive movement in Europe. This is our position, and we are going to
stick to it. On the question of humanism, humanism is
inconsistent with electrified border fences! Full stop. So we have a question here. And we have
some more, so plz keep your answers short. Sorry, you answer too, but the
questions short. Hi, it’s Eric Reg??? of the Globe and Mail,
of Canada. The Italian government insists it doesn’t
want to leave the Euro. But my question do you believe them, do they secretly or
not so secretly want to leave the Euro? And, if they do, is it not a bad idea
to do so in the sense that, for 20 years, since the introduction of the Euro in
Italy, this country has been a corpse it’s just hasn’t worked for this country.
Thank you! No, I don’t believe them. What I do believe
is that Mr. Salvini has chosen a two phase strategy. First beat up anti-migration
rage, xenophobia before the European parliament elections in order to garner
votes but keep the Euro question under wraps for now. So that after the
European parliament elections, he can became prime minister and then
go into phase 2, which will be… not necessarily… there will be no
referendum about the Euro, or anything like that. But he will cause a crisis, that will make
it a natural progression for Italy to forge a parallel currency, that then is the
precursor of something very much like Italexit. This is my personal view. But it
is neither here nor there. The second question, would it be a good
idea to get out of the Euro. I have been very steadfast in my view on
this, regarding Greece, regarding Italy regarding all Euro-Zone member states.
It is this : some people think there is a contradiction in what I am going to say.
There is no contradiction. First we should not have entered the Euro-
Zone. Italy should not have entered it. Greece should not have entered it. We
should not have created the Eurozone Not that the common currency would be a
bad idea, but THIS common currency with THESE rules. Think about it . We created a
central bank without a treasury, to have its back and we have 19 treasuries without
a central bank to look after national banking systems, that they cannot ever save
during a crisis. It is as if we had created a monetary union designed to cause problems
for our citizens. That’s point number one.
Point number two : We should not have a policy of exiting
that terrible monetary union. Some people say, hang on a second, you
just said that we should not have entered it but now you say we should not exit it.
Yes! Because it’s one thing to say, We should not have come in, it’s quite
another to say we should get out. It’s not the same thing. Because, once we
get in, things change. And getting out has a major cost for Europe as a whole,
for Italy. It does not mean that we should not prepare a parallel currency, I prepared
one, when I was a minister. It does not mean that we should stay in the
Euro, even if our countries collapse. No! it means that should be prepared, on
the one hand to go to Brussels, to go to Berlin and put forward proposals for
making changes to the Euro-Zone, that will allow Italy to breathe within it and at the
same time, prepare for exiting for the very simple reason, that even the Bundes-
bank is preparing for an exit of Germany. Because this is a very unstable currency. Tank you Y. There is a question over there. Sorry to bring you back to the Italian
politics… Don’t be sorry, this is why I’m here. OK, thank you. Francesca ??? from Agorà.
I want to ask you, in case of a crisis of the Italian government, what are the
chances of Mr. Di Maio to be your partner? And then: do you see a default of Italy
as a possibility? I’ll start from the second part. I think a
default will be unlikely. But there are ways of hair-cutting debt,
that do not count as default, so for instance, one of the things that is
not unlikely, is that there will be, in the case of Italy and Italian public debt,
financial incentives for Italian savers to buy more bonds, with tax-breaks that
clash with Brussels’ rules. For instance, a parallel currency would, if there was
re-denomination of part of the debt, would also be an effective haircut, that would
not count necessarily as a default. But this is a theoretical discussion. What
really matters, is that we avoid this clash between this government and Brussels, a
clash that is not leading to any improvement in the lives of Italians or the rest
of Europe. On the first question that you asked, I
think I’ve already answered it. As I said, we are atheists who happen to be faithful
in human nature, if Mr. Di Maio drops out of this government and stops being the
crutch of Mr. Salvini, and 5Stelle join again the ranks of humanist rational political
forces, we would be welcoming them as well But I do not see this happening. Every day
they stay within this coalition, I believe 5Stelle is losing its soul. But have you been in conversation,
for example, with Fico? The one who is considered on the left of the… We’ve been in conversations with many
people, not with the particular person that you mention, at least not me, maybe
somebody from our movement has,
maybe I can ask one of our DiEM25 representatives here, to answer
the question. But this is not the issue. The issue is: is 5Stelle interested in
reclaiming its position on the humanist side of politics? Thank you. There is another question over
there and then here… I’m Italian, and Deutsch-Italian from Berlin.
We know that you are going to meet, as soon as possible, Bernie Sanders, so we would
like to know something about the “Internazionale progressista” as we call it.
Thanks. Well thank you for the question, because
this is something quite exciting. DiEM25 is not only europeanist, or actually
we are europeanist because we are internationalist. Europe is a source of
great instability for the rest of the world We are causing serious problems for the
rest of the world, through our inability to solve our crisis. At the same time we
have an American president who is determined to destabilise what is left of
the stability of the world, and we have the complete failure of the West, of the EU and
the US, to get their act together, to deal with the global crisis which began in 2008
and which has not finished. Anyone who thinks it has finished, should reconsider
their views. This is why we need to go beyond the limits
of Europe. You see, the financiers are internationalists, they know how to bind
together to make sure that the majority of people in every country bails them out after
they’ve made their huge errors, the fascists, the nationalists, the racists,
like Trump, Bannon, Seehofer, Salvini, are internationalists, they bind together
magnificently, the only people who are failing, are the progressives. So on the
30th of November, Bernie Sanders and I are going to be launching the progressive
international in Vermont, and we’re going to issue an open call to political forces
from across Europe, from Africa, from Asia from Latin America, from Central America,
to join us. It is going to be a very difficult process, but at least there is going to be
a start. Thank you. Ehm, Paddy? Paddy A??, Sunday Independent,
Professor, to change theme slightly, Brexit. Eh… Is… you say Salvini is
working toward the disintegration of the EU that’s his aim, but have Mr. Farage and
Boris Johnson started the job already? And do you feel that we’re in a Brexit
situation where the 27 countries say ‘unless we get an Irish border resolution,
there’ll be no deal’. Do you think the 27 countries will hold together on that? Yes. But then the question is, will London
prefer a no-deal to a united Ireland? ‘Cause that is the issue, really. I do
believe that, remember that DiEM25 is a movement with a presence in Ireland, both
the Republic and Northern Ireland, and we’re very proud of that, and we’ve brought people
together that would not have been in the same movement if DiEM was not in Ireland.
We think that this is a magnificent opportunity to bring back the concept, in a
non-sectarian way, of a united Ireland. The border must never return. The Good
Friday Agreement must be maintained and supported, and Europe has a role to play
in this. But let me say something about Brexit: you mentioned Mr. Johnson and
Mr. Farage, they would never have succeded to win the Brexit referendum if it was not
for the incompetence of Brussels and Frankfurt in handling the inevitable crisis
of the Eurozone, between 2010 and 2016, and let me explain this: at a time when the
financial world was collapsing, between 2008 and 2010, the ECB, completely hostage
of its charter, that was written by the Bundesbank, was shrinking the money supply
while the Bank of England was boosting the money supply as if there was no tomorrow,
the Bank of Japan, the Fed in the US, the result was hundreds of thousands of
Italians, Greeks, Spaniards, Portuguese, moving to England, at a time where Mr. Osbourne
the Tory party treasurer, was imposing austerity on the majority of the English people. So
you have the refloating of the financial markets in England, drawing people from
the continent, while British workers were being treated with austerity. That was the
recipe for creating the Brexit movement. It was Brussels and Frankfurt’s policies
that gave rise to the disintegration of the EU with Brexit. This is why DiEM25 is
determined to clash with the Brussels establishment in order to save the EU, in
order to make sure that borders, like the one between the Republic and Northern
Ireland never come back. There is a question there. May I? Eva Giovannini, “Mezz’ora in più”,
Rai3. I wanted to come back to what my colleague
asked about earlier concerning Russia, there are explicit encouragements both from
Washington as from Moscow to the government to keep going with this “manovra” (budget proposal)
and there is even talk of potential economic support from the Kremlin, to buy
Italian public debt, they talk about 6 billion I’d like to know from you, politically
speaking, what would it mean for us, for Italians, to be Moscow’s debtors, and so
for Moscow to be Italy’s creditors? Thanks. It is a very bad Idea, very bad idea. For
two reasons. Firstly : Russia is bankrupt and the most they can do, is buy 4% of
your debt issuance for the next year. In the next year your debt issuance is 250
billion €. If they choose to, they would buy 4%, it’s irrelevant. So they can’t
help Italy. That’s one reason. Secondly : you should
not want to be helped by Mr.Putin. The last thing we need in Europe, in Italy
is more dependence on Mr. Putin. Or indeed Mr Trump for that matter.
Remember Mr Trump and Mr Putin are united by a wish to see a Europe that is
disintegrating and becoming more reactionary and more right wing and more
fascistic. This is why we are here. We are here because we need to fight
against Mr Putin, against Mr Trump, against the Brussels establishment that is
making Mr Salvini powerful enough to be playing these games with Mr Trump
and Mr Putin. Plus, if I don’t… I remember something
similar promised to Greece, right? I mean, Russia also promised to buy Greek
bonds some years ago? I’ve written about this in my last book,
which is exists in Italian : “Adults in the room.” and I explained why I was the
one member of the Greek cabinet under Mr Tsipras who effectively vetoed any
discussion with Putin on us being helped by Russia against our struggle with the
troika. For the same reason that I outlined here, I refused even to go
to Moscow along with Mr Tsipras. In the end, of course, Mr Putin did
exactly as I predicted, and said to Mr Tsipras : ” We are not going
to help you!” OK, do you need a final translation? It’s
OK ? OK? So Yanis Varoufakis, tank you again very
much for being here. Tank you to you all. Tank you.